CITY OF GARDINER ORDINANCE REVIEW COMMITTEE. MEETING NOTES Monday August 20, 3:00 PM. City Hall Council Chambers

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1 6 Church Street, Gardiner, Maine CITY OF GARDINER ORDINANCE REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING NOTES Monday August 20, 3:00 PM City Hall Council Chambers Members Present: Debby Willis, Chair Nate McKenna Dan Bates John Burgess Christine Szigeti-Johnson Jonathan Stonier Members Absent: Kara Wilbur-Bensen Also Present: Dorothy Morang, Secretary David Cichowski, Code Enforcement Officer Nate Rudy, Director Planning & Community Development Scott Morelli, City Manager Patricia Hart, City Councilor, Ward 2 Thom Harnett, City Councilor, Ward 3 Marcina Johnson Chandler Johnson Lisa Liberatore Dorothy Washburne Veronique Vendette Alex Rosenberg William Esterline Hilda Whitmore Mattie Parlin Keith Whitmore 1. Chair Willis opened the meeting and thanked everyone for coming. She asked each of the members of the Committee to introduce themselves and say what board they represent, or are representing as a member of the general public. 2. Consideration of an ordinance change to allow for the keeping of mini goats, sheep and other farm animals in residential districts. Scott Morelli, City Manager thanked everyone for coming and gave an overview of how this issue was brought to the City. He said that the City Council was Ordinance Review Committee Draft Meeting Notes August 20, 2012 Pg 1

2 approached by a resident who wanted to keep pygmy goats. Currently they are not allowed by the Land Use Ordinance. The Council, without a position either for or against, asked the Ordinance Review Committee to review the keeping of goats and at the same time, also sheep keeping. The City has suspended any enforcement action until a decision can be made with respect to livestock keeping in residential areas. Patricia Hart, City Councilor from District II said that she sponsored this review to see what folks want and what they don t want and also to see what the enforcement might be as it is important also. David Cichowski, Code Enforcement Officer (CEO) said that currently farm animals are not allowed in High Density Residential areas and in the Residential Growth where they are allowed, many of the lots are not large enough. He said he feels that they should be allowed in these zones if there is enough land to meet the needs of the animals and a buffer to protect neighbors. Thom Harnett, City Councilor from District III said that he was here to listen to the issues. Lisa Liberatore said she lives in District II on West Street, which is in the Residential Growth Zoning District. Livestock and animal keeping is allowed in this district, but is restricted by the size of the lot. Currently it requires 80,000 S.F. She would like to have two Nigerian dwarf goats but cannot because she doesn t have enough land. She favors the ordinance be based on the size of the lot and the size of the animals. She quoted Maine Law, The Maine Agriculture Protection Act (commonly known as the Right to Farm law) which states that a farm, farm operation or agricultural composting operation may not be considered a public or private nuisance if [it] is in compliance with applicable state and federal laws, rules and regulations and conforms to best management practices, as determined by the commissioner. (Maine Revised Statutes Title 7, ). She said that if people follow the best management practices and take care of their animals, they have a right to farm. Dan Bates asked how big were the goats she wanted to have. Lisa said and up to 75 lbs. Dan asked if the best management practices were in written form. Lisa said yes, but they deal more with larger animals. She said they were available online through the Maine Farmland Trust. She said Gardiner is moving through the local food initiative, towards families growing their own food and buying locally. Dan asked if any other towns ordinance covered this. Lisa said she didn t know. Ordinance Review Committee Draft Meeting Notes August 20, 2012 Pg 2

3 Marcina Johnson She said that she has one dwarf goat and one baby goat. She was recently visited, unexpectedly, by the Department of Agriculture. They saw nothing wrong. She also has six chickens and two bee hives and they did not smell anything. She has gone to her neighbors on both Plaisted and Clinton St and to the two day care centers and nursing home and no one has indicated any issues with her animals except those attending this meeting. She noted that mini goats are very gentle and very easy to maintain. Their digestive system makes the manure ready for composting. She said that the CEO has made a couple of unannounced visit as well as the Animal Control Officer and found nothing wrong. Dan asked if it was a written decision Marcina said no, they just said everything was ok. Dan asked if we would have to submit the draft to the state before we enact anything. David said that he had spoken with the Department of Agriculture and if we re- write our ordinance to allow livestock/animals in residential areas, we would send the draft to them to be reviewed. Jonathan Stonier He said his issue would be how to deal with the manure and composting. Marcina said that they use pine shavings to keep the pen area clean and use the manure on their garden. She said it isn t like a pig or cow manure. Jon asked if the goats are penned in. Marcina said yes they have a fenced in pen and the pen is within a fenced in yard. John Burgess noted that goats climb and asked if she is able to provide something for the goats to climb on. Marcina said that the goats are less than 23 high. They have several stumps and other things within their pen to climb on. The surrounding fence is 4 high. John asked what kind of noise they make. Marcina said baaaaa no noisier than other neighborhood sounds. Lisa said that their waste is a lot better for the environment than dogs or cats. The goats don t eat meat. Veronique Vendette She said that one of the reasons she moved to Gardiner was because of the Local Food Initiative and other programs and that Gardiner is environmentally conscientious. She would like to have two sheep every summer to cut the grass. As they mowed, their poop would fall close to the ground and disappear within a week. The pen area would be pine shavings and would be composted and is good to use in the garden. We can t use dog poop. By the sheep mowing the grass, they would have fertilizer for their garden and would not be using fossil fuels. She spoke with Matt Randall from the Department of Agriculture and he said the Maine law requires that owners of animals provide feed, shelter and water it s all about how the owners treat their animals. Ordinance Review Committee Draft Meeting Notes August 20, 2012 Pg 3

4 Dan Bates asked where he would go to read more about ground water, etc. Veronique said online Sheep Lawn Mower or the Department of Agriculture or Department of Environmental Protection would have answers to that. David said he asked the Department of Agriculture about it and they used the example that two German Shepherds or dog and cat waste which would have more of an effect on groundwater than the sheep. David said that in a worldwide survey, ¾ of the children in the world drink goats milk rather than cows milk. John Burgess asked how many sheep it would take to mow a lawn. Veronique more than two, but they only want two. You can raise 3 10 sheep on an acre of land. Marcina referred to information they provided that detail ordinances in cities around the country that deal with livestock keeping. John asked how expensive sheep were. Veronique said $300 - $400 each. Marcie said that there is the up-front cost and they are a lot of work so people who have them usually take proper care of them. Alex Rosenberg Alex said that he has worked in law enforcement and water quality management in the area. He doesn t see any water runoff issues. He said that he believes that people in general are moving towards growing and raising their own food and buying locally, including bartering. He agrees that small livestock waste is much less of a problem than dog or cat or human waste. He would like to have two sheep that he would get in the spring and have slaughtered in the fall. He has three and a half acres of land, but is in the High Density Residential Zone which does not allow them. He believes it should be allowed depending on the size of the land per animal. In the Residential Growth Zone, livestock and small animals are allowed and there is no limit on the numbers, but the lot size requirement is the same as for the Rural Zone. He turned in a petition with 8 nearby property owners signatures stating that they are ok with the animals based on the weight of the animals. Hilda Whitmore Hilda said that she lives on the opposite of the Johnson s property (the street behind their property the further side of a duplex house with her sister) and says that she can smell the goats. She has concerns that they will not be able to take proper care of the goats. She questioned that the Johnson s are building a goat house without a permit. The CEO said that they do have a permit to build the 8 x8 coop for their chickens. Hilda said she doesn t have any animals and doesn t want any. Ordinance Review Committee Draft Meeting Notes August 20, 2012 Pg 4

5 Dan Bates asked if she would object to any ordinance change because of the smell and how far physically, was Hilda s home from where the goats are. Hilda said she is at 25 Clinton St and the Johnson s at 12 Plaisted St. She said the Johnson s property is not even a quarter acre and you need two acres. She also said that the Johnson s fence is not good. Mattie Parlin of 10 Clinton St said that she has been a tax paying citizen for over 50 years. She said a goat is a goat and they have a foul smell. She said the Johnson s have walked the goats on a dog s leash around the neighborhood and if she wanted to be near farm animals, she would live in the country. She is against this if one family gets them in, there will be others. Dan asked her how far she was from them when she smelled the goats. She said she hasn t smelled them yet, but a person she knows goes for rides on bikes in the country and goes by goats and says that they smell bad. Keith Whitmore said that goats need grass for feed and a place to roam. The Johnson s land is not qualified for a farm and he can t see them doing that it s cruel to the animals. Bill Esterline of 20 Clinton St. referred to his letter that he sent describing his objections and also turned in information on goat care. He said if the animals were out on Brunswick Av by the school it would not be a problem, but his neighborhood is wall to wall neighbors. His concerns are the smell and that there is a nursing home and two nursery schools nearby. Also, the homes in his area, which are valued at about $130,000, - that no one is going to buy into this area if this goes through. Dan noted that Bill rose in opposition to goats on a ¼ acre, but would be in favor if there were 2 acres of land. Bill said there needs to be a limit of goats per residence if outside a residential area, depending on the lot size. David, the CEO said that he worked for someone who raised goats and the strong smell didn t come from the manure, it came from breeding with the male goats they have a very strong smell produced by a gland. He referred to the Animal Control Officer s letter that included her recommendations that there be no male goats. David believes that would resolve the odor problem. Chandler Johnson objected to the idea that goats are hazardous to children children are raised on farms, we take children to petting zoos. He said that both of the nursery schools mentioned have no problem with them having the goats and no families with children in the neighborhood have objected nor the nursing home. Ordinance Review Committee Draft Meeting Notes August 20, 2012 Pg 5

6 Dan asked about the petition signed by abutters. Scott has it and will get a copy to the Committee. Dan asked David that if non-neutered goats are smelly, we could recommend that they not have them. Dan also asked about enforcement as there have been some problems with pigs and odor in the rural area in the past. David said that he deals with land use issues whether or not one is meeting the ordinance requirements concerning fencing, buffering, the number of goats, etc. If a neighbor says there is too much odor, it s hard to measure. What one says is repulsive, another is ok with it s impossible to quantify. Dorothy Washburne 56 Water St. She said that this is a complicated issue. She lives in a High Density Residential area. If the lot is big enough, perhaps there is a place for some small animals, but would they then allow small pigs or small horses, etc. Veronique Vendette 259 Brunswick Av. She noted that some dogs are as large as small horses. Chair Willis asked the Committee Members what they thought. Christine Szigeti-Johnson said that there has to be a win-win something to ensure each a quality of life. With everything so polluted, they have a right to enjoy good health, but others have the right to be protected she recognizes the issues on both sides. Nate McKenna agrees. He said that this is a divisive issue, but feels there should be appropriate size lots for animals. John Burgess said that he spoke with his veterinarian about the difference between goats and pigmy goats, the size of property, fences, etc. He said the onus is on enforcement if this is allowed there needs to be some enforcement with some dog owners too. David said that there is a fine line between what he would be able to take care of as CEO. Some things would fall under the Animal Control Officer. Nate Rudy said he would like to make a distinction between animal husbandry and livestock keeping. He said there are a number of issues to be addressed such as the remedy if there are more animals than allowed or oversized animals and who will enforce that, what about loose animals. Debby Willis noted that the Land Use Ordinance deals with land use issues. Ordinance Review Committee Draft Meeting Notes August 20, 2012 Pg 6

7 Pat Hart reminded the Committee to consider the accumulative effect also within a residential neighborhood. Dan Bates recommended that they take this information under advisement and if there is other information that addresses the enforcement issue or other issues or if opponents or proponents have other information, petitions, etc. to turn them in within a set time period so that they can be distributed to the Committee members to review before they reconvene. Jonathan Stonier said things to consider are the size of the lot as well as the buffer zone. He referred to the letter from the Animal Control Officer on specifications for keeping the animals and how to handle animals, but noted it is a tight area in that neighborhood. Chair Willis thanked everyone for coming and providing them with information. 2.) ADJOURN Meeting adjourned Ordinance Review Committee Draft Meeting Notes August 20, 2012 Pg 7