Tom & Jeri Booher, D.V.M

Transcription

1 Alpaca Expert Transcripts Quick & Easy Secrets To Maximize Bottom Line Profits And Success In Your Alpaca Business Featuring: Tom & Jeri Booher, D.V.M Timberland Alpacas Seasoned Vets Share Their Secrets ACD-BOBK3

2 Seasoned Vets Share Their Secrets Jeri and Tom Booher, D.V.M. Timberland Alpacas Doctor s of Veterinary Medicine NW Shearer Hill Road Forest Grove, Oregon Phone: AlpacaDR@AOL.com Dr s. Tom and Jeri Booher, DVM, have been successful alpaca breeders since They raise a herd of over 100 high quality huacayas in mid-state Oregon. Prior to specializing in alpacas, both of them were small animal vets. Their background includes being active in the alpaca industry with showing, giving seminars, Tom, past AOBA Board of Director member, Jeri, past chair of Health and Research Committee and more than five years on the Show Rules Committee. They developed their own bloodline, the Hemiaccoyo and are nationally recognized for producing high quality fleeces. In the interview they share valuable information about general alpaca care and husbandry from the alpaca vet's perspective. We cover pregnancy and birth situations and tips for healthy cria care too. They also give their insights about the difference of the early days in the industry and what we can expect in the future. Since they have been so successful with their own bloodlines, I asked them for some tips on what a new breeder could do. Shortly after I completed the interview, I had the opportunity to meet the Boohers at a show and see first hand the quality of the progeny of their breeding program. Outstanding! Those interested can contact them directly by phone or . Mention this Alpaca CD and they will give a 10% discount on any alpaca purchase. Page 2 of 28

3 Julie Roy: Well, good morning. Today I am so thrilled that we have two vets that will be able to share some of their wisdom, not only about their ability as a veterinarian, but also as raising alpacas and so we have today, Dr s. Jeri and Tom Booher, good morning both of you. Dr. Jeri Booher: Good morning. Good morning. Julie Roy: Their ranch is called the Timberland Alpacas. They are in the Pacific Northwest, located about 30 miles west of Portland. So, what I find very interesting is their background and how they became alpaca owners and alpaca vets. Jeri, would you like to tell us just a little bit about how you got started and why all of the sudden alpacas? Dr. Jeri Booher: Well, Tom and I were long time small animal practitioners for over twenty years and our children were fairly young and we were spending sixty plus hours at the clinic a week. We wanted to look for something that we could do with the small piece of acreage that we had, that would allow us to spend more time with our children as they were growing up and involved with school activities. One day Tom came home with an article in his hand that said alpacas. Three weeks later, we bought our first few alpacas; three bred females and a young male and have not stopped since. At this point, we are up to one hundred huacaya and we also are no longer doing our small animal work, but we are doing exclusively alpacas. Julie Roy: Now how long ago was this? Nineteen-ninety two. Julie Roy: Nineteen-ninety two, so basically you were one of the forerunners of alpaca vets and in the early days of owning alpacas. Is that right? Yeah, back when we got started there were about 180 breeders in the entire country. From a veterinary standpoint, we applied our small animal skills the best we could to alpacas and then learned on the job, there were just no books, or very little information that we could draw from. So it s been on the job training for probably 99% of it. Page 3 of 28

4 Julie Roy: I m sure that those people and other breeders that have met you have been very thankful that you did spend so much time learning the specialty of caring for alpacas and llamas. I guess in 1992, most people mainly had llamas, is that right? Dr. Jeri Booher: Yes, that s right. I believe at the time there were total of fifty thousand llamas in this country, perhaps even more and there were only about 25 hundred alpacas in the country. So we were really starting from ground zero, learning about the alpacas. I think other alpaca breeders appreciated the fact that we did have our own animals and so we were speaking from first hand knowledge of the animals, verses the few vets in the country that were practicing on mainly llamas, but did not have their own alpacas. And so they were applying their knowledge of the llamas to the alpacas and they are different. They have different personalities and physiology the alpaca is so much smaller then the llama and they re unique animals in that sense. Back then, everybody knew everybody. If you went to an event, even several states away, you were just about on a first name basis with most of the people. The AOBA conferences back there were more of a social event and a lot of camaraderie and boy that has changed completely with the numbers that people have gotten into the industry. So it s a whole different perspective now and you change as you go. Julie Roy: Very true and now, I know that recently they had the 100,000 th registered alpaca. Wow {chuckles} Julie Roy: They said it took twenty years to get to the 100,000 th alpaca and its probably going to take less then half of that amount of time, of course to get to the next 100,000 th. Dr. Jeri Booher: Mmhmm. Definitely an industry that s more then likely here to stay and growing and learning all at the same time. So it s very interesting and unique. Julie Roy: It is and that s wonderful for our listeners to know that you ve been around since the early days and you are still enjoying it, you re succeeding, you re running a farm yourself, you re staying in Page 4 of 28

5 touch. Tom, I know that you are a speaker and travel across the country for AOBA. You speak on veterinarian topics and also, probably as an alpaca owner. Tell me more about that. I was on the AOBA board back in the 90 s and so on a national level I got to know a lot of different people and, you know, kind of grew together. Every now and then, I was asked to speak, as we are now, on some Alpaca 101 topics and it kind of started from there, where I would get in front of a group. I never get tired of it because the people now are asking a lot of questions, that when we got into it, no one thought of. They re doing their homework and that makes it even more fun because you can get by some of the questions like, what s the difference between an alpaca and a llama? This is the first question everybody always had to address in the early days. Now {chuckles} you re getting into some heavy hitting stuff right off the bat, so I enjoy it. It s fun to go through the changes like that. Julie Roy: Yes and we re really glad that you are staying involved and sharing your background and your wealth of knowledge. Tell me a little bit about the actual herd that you have. I heard you say Jeri in the beginning, that you have a hundred alpacas that are huacayas. So tell me a little bit about how you got to owning a hundred. Dr. Jeri Booher: Well, we started out with three bred females and a young male, as I said earlier. Over the years, we bought a few animals each year, starting with the 1993 Peruvian importations, when it was a very exciting time for the industry, because for the first time we had a new influx of very good genetic material that we could incorporate into our breeding programs. So from those importations, we had the foundation of our current herd today. Our strength has been breeding with some very excellent herdsires and we ve developed our own bloodline, in using those excellent herdsires. So at present, we maintain a maximum herd of a hundred. We have anywhere from twenty-seven to thirty crias every year, during birthing season. We are fairly active in the show industry. I ve been a three-term member of the show rules committee and that s been very exciting. Getting our AOBA Alpaca show system off the ground, because back then when we started our show division, we started from nothing and its developed into a very successful system. Julie Roy: Jeri, I think our listeners would really appreciate hearing from you about what you would recommend to somebody who s new in the business. Maybe they have animals and maybe they don t, but Page 5 of 28

6 some things they could really be doing and thinking about in order to start their business successfully. Dr. Jeri Booher: Well, what we ve found over the past several years is that the new alpaca breeder or the people who are thinking about getting alpacas have become a lot more educated. Part of that is because there is so much more out there then there was when we first started, as far as, there are books and pamphlets. AOBA is a great support system because from AOBA, they have a huge library that you can check out articles and you really can get a good working knowledge of the alpacas before you even get your animals home. So that s a good place for a new person to start. AOBA always has seminars every year at their national convention. Those seminars are geared all the way from the new enthusiasts to the experienced breeder. There are lots of regional seminars that private breeders give and those are also very useful. Some of them are geared towards the veterinarian medicine. Some of them are geared towards fiber. There are fiber-teaching clinics. So, there s a lot out there. It doesn t hurt to visit as many alpaca farms as you can. Talk to each breeder about how they do things and you ll find that every breeder will do things differently. Some of that is because it is a regional difference. We, in the Northwest, may do things very differently from somebody who lives in Florida. But, by visiting a lot of farms, then you can hopefully glean the best of what you hear and then utilize it on your own farm. Julie Roy: It s nice to know that this expansion of information is made available free of charge to people who are just getting into the business. My own experience has been that any breeder that I talk to seems to love to talk about their alpacas and what they re doing, what s worked, and what hasn t worked. That is something I think that we can all really appreciate that our industry has become that way. Wouldn t you say that it s been very collaborative in terms of just sharing information from farm to farm and vet to vet? Dr. Jeri Booher: It has been and what I think a new breeder should hear from various vets or seminars. They should hear the good things, but they should also hear the bad things. These are still animals. They are biological systems and so given that doesn t always go according to what you read in the book. So a breeder has to go into it with their eyes wide open. Julie Roy: That s true. It s just so easy just to fall in love with the animals themselves. They re so gentle, those big eyes just looking at Page 6 of 28

7 you, drawing you in. But I ve found that I had sort of a rapid learning curve in the very beginning. My husband and I had only raised one house cat between us. I d had experience, as a child, taking care of other people s larger animals and riding horses and being around small livestock, but never actually being in charge of them on a day-to-day basis. And yet, I think statistics tell us that at least 80% of the people getting into the industry have never had any other live stock experience and most of them, maybe a horse or small animals. Are you finding that to be the case right now, too? I think so. I think for someone who doesn t have any animals, that there should be a direct correlation with the amount of homework you do, before you buy your first animal. If you have no husbandry background, or very little background, I think that you need to do the things that Jeri mentioned probably more so then if you have had a livestock background. Go visit as many farms as you can. Check out websites that have information on them. Most shows now days, they all have seminars attached to them. These people need to go and get that under their belt before they make their first purchase. Or what we have seen over the years, the people that haven t done that, its very, very hard to come up with a plan or to talk intelligently to, to get them on the right track, to communicate with them on how to handle these biological systems and keep them healthy when they don t know what you re talking about. So definitely do the homework if you have no background. Dr. Jeri Booher: What we did when we first got our first few alpacas, although we had many, many years of small animal experience and felt very comfortable doing that. When we got our alpacas home, I used to spend hours just sitting out there at the fence, watching them. Because I didn t really know what they were like. I didn t know what was normal and what was abnormal. And so, the best way for me to learn those things was to just sit there and to watch them. You can learn a tremendous amount by just observing them. Julie Roy: I agree with you on that and it s fun to watch when you have a cria, to see how it starts adjusting and living within the herd, which ones might become a little bit more assertive then others. Then if one of your assertive ones is holding back, boy that s a real tip off isn t it? Dr. Jeri Booher: It is and they are so different. They each have their individual personalities. So it is very important for a breeder to Page 7 of 28

8 know each animal in his or her own herd because they are so different. When one alpacas doing something, it may be okay for another alpaca to be doing it, but if this alpacas doing something that they ve never done before, maybe that s a warning sign that hmm, something is a little off here. Julie Roy: Lets talk a little bit about your recommendation to the new alpaca owners, if they suspect something is a little off, something s just not quite right but they don t want to call the vet in quite yet. What is it that you could recommend to us owners that we could do in the meantime? Jeri, let me start with you, what would you recommend? Dr. Jeri Booher: I think the first thing that is critically important in trying to determine whether an alpaca has a problem, is whether their appetite s are normal or not. An alpaca who quits eating is a very seriously ill alpaca. So if you have an alpaca that all the sudden quits eating, I would say that that alpaca probably needs to be seen as soon as possible by a veterinarian. Julie Roy: All right. Dr. Jeri Booher: If you have an alpaca that you suspect may have something wrong, but you re not really sure, it may be eating okay or maybe you re not sure if the appetite is down a little bit. I always go out, late at night or early in the morning, when they are all cushed down, all bedded down in their stalls and I watch that particular alpaca. Because if that alpaca is chewing its cud and happily just munching away, chewing its cud, then that gives me a lot of information. It tells me that that alpaca is probably taking in enough intakes that they are able to chew their cud. It s also telling me that their digestive system is functioning okay, because when these alpacas get sick it doesn t take long for the G.I. tract to shut down and once it shuts down its very hard to get it going again. So, if you do have an alpaca who is chewing its cud, that s a positive sign. Also, you should always keep a rectal thermometer, to take a temperature to see whether it has an elevated temperature or whether it is below normal because that gives you some information also. Julie Roy: Why don t you tell us what would be a normal temperature that we should be looking for? Dr. Jeri Booher: If you have an alpaca at rest on a cool day, then the normal temperature is roughly around 99 F to F. I consider Page 8 of 28

9 anything over 103 F as an elevated temperature. If you have an alpaca in full fleece and it s a very warm day, then you can get a temperature reading of over 103 F, that may not mean the alpaca has a true fever, but it may be overheated because of being in full fleece and so that gives you some information also. Because these alpacas in full fleece can develop heat stress and that in itself is very dangerous. Julie Roy: Yes, that is very true and maybe you want to take just a moment to tell us, if you did find an alpaca that did have an elevated temperature, is there some immediate steps you could take to get the temperature down. You have to put it in context with the rest of what the animal is doing. Obviously, if it s a hot day and one got its leg caught in the fence and was struggling to get it out and that s the cause of the temperature, then you deal with that differently then say one that at eleven o clock at night that s in the stall cushed, but has a 103 F temperature. So, it really depends on the context of what you re seeing so that your observational skills are extremely important with dealing with alpacas when they start becoming sick. Just the temperature in and of itself, doesn t mean you grab a bottle of something to lower the temperature. You really have to determine maybe it s just a matter of moving the animal in the shade, or squirting the hose on it or getting the sprinkler to cool it down in the summer or maybe it s something where you can use a pharmaceutical to lower the temperature if it s due to some type of inflammation. In and of itself, a temperature has to be taken in context with the rest of the findings. Julie Roy: Very good. If you are a new owner and you have watched your animals and you see normal behavior, so you already know what that is and then you see something that s abnormal, what I want from both of you is what we, as a new owner could do before we would call in the vet? If this is in preparatory on whether you need to call a vet or not, the observational skills I think are what you got. Has the animal isolated itself from the herd? Is it drooling? Is it breathing fast or rapid? Again the temperature, all these things are what the vet s going to ask you anyway if you call them. So start making a little list or use your observational skills and describe what you re seeing, put it on paper if you have to so that if you do have to call the vet, then I guarantee he is going to ask you all of those questions. Page 9 of 28

10 Julie Roy: That s wonderful advice. I know my vet always asks me to look at the alpaca s mouth and look at the condition of the gums to see if they re moist and the color. Dr. Jeri Booher: Well, some of the diseases, some of the illnesses that alpacas can get will cause an anemia. A sick alpaca may not be drinking water as much and so that alpaca may be dehydrated, so gums would be very dry and dull looking. An anemic alpaca s gum will be pale, not nice and pink, although, that is a little hard to determine but it is always a good idea to check the gums. We always advise owners to pull down on the lower eyelid and check the color of the conjunctiva, because the conjunctiva should be nice and pink. One of the questions that we always ask is of course, what age? If it s a female, is she pregnant? If she is pregnant, how far along is she? Those are also important questions. When you re dealing with a pregnant female and that pregnant female starts to show somewhat you would think may be unusual or abnormal behavior, it always is very useful to know what part of her pregnancy she is at. Julie Roy: Yes, like whether she is in the first, second, third trimester basically of carrying her cria. Dr. Jeri Booher: Right. Julie Roy: So if I was to summarize what we have just been talking about, a new owner could talk to the vet ahead of time. Establish a relationship that would allow the vet to know that the owner has enough knowledge about normal alpaca behavior and observable signs and then when they start seeing something is abnormal, they have a little checklist that they d go through. You know, like you said the temperature, the eyes, the gums, respiration, when was the last time they saw them chewing their cud. So all of these things, the alpaca owner knows ahead of time and then when they make the phone call they can just go through their checklist, let the vet know and then either determine whether you would need to bring the vet out to the farm or take the animal to the vet hospital. So is this something that s fairly standard then with camelid vets across the country? Standard, in a sense of developing a relationship with a client and preparing them for eventual emergencies or something? Julie Roy: Yeah. Page 10 of 28

11 Well, in my experience I think education is, the more you can tell these people what s normal, is probably just as important as to what s abnormal. We always encourage people to call us, rather then panic and say rush an animal to a veterinary clinic. Call, let s talk through it a little bit. So the best thing you can have is a nice refrigerator magnet with your phone number underneath it {chuckles} Not only the vets, but maybe some successful alpaca people in the community. Maybe have more then one vet s phone number. In the AOBA directory there is probably more then half a dozen phone numbers that people, like us, we don t mind answering across the country if people have a call. But there s a wealth of information I think you need to have these phone numbers on your refrigerator, so that when you do have the problem, you can make contact with somebody. Julie Roy: That s great advice. I recommend phone numbers be kept in a couple of different places, the refrigerator, down at the barn, if you have hay, where you stir your hay. {chuckles} Julie Roy: But you brought up another very good point and that s to keep the phone numbers of other breeders that are within your area. So that if the vet is not accessible, there s somebody else that could possibly explain or answer a question about whatever the person might be observing. that we run into. I can give you an example of a common thing Julie Roy: Yes. This is a new breeder that will panic and call saying that they know their animal has a tooth abscess or something that s drastically wrong with their mouth. Because it s all swollen. They want to know what to do or should they pack it up and bring it on over. We try to talk them through it to describe where it s located. I say, wait a few minutes and see if it disappears. {chuckles} Julie Roy: Yeah. that it disappears. And incredulously they do this and they find out This is what, like a cud, will form in the side of Page 11 of 28

12 their mouth, a little wad and they ve never seen that before. It looks just like an abscess Julie Roy: Yes. But when it disappears a half an hour later, they are just absolutely surprised they cured themselves. So this is where if you re on the phone you might prevent having to put the animal in the trailer, just by talking it through with somebody. It doesn t have to be a veterinarian, if you have someone in the areas that s been around for several years, they might be able to say, oh yeah he s just chewing his cud. You got a wad in there. So that s probably a good example to use, as far as talking through a situation with somebody. Julie Roy: That s wonderful, because a lot of these new owners are in areas where there aren t camelid specialists nearby and we want everybody to know that you re not alone. You know, if there isn t a main source of information. There s going to be secondary sources of information and certainly describing whatever it is that you re observing. Like you said, could save somebody an unnecessary trip transport vehicle. I d like to go into a little bit more detail about something Jeri, you were starting to bring up and that was, when you ve got a female and maybe she s near term. Could you just tell us a little bit about what are the signs that you look for that indicates that she s going into labor? Dr. Jeri Booher: Well again, it is knowing your individual females, because what I found is my females will all be a little bit different in their behavior when they are getting close to having their baby. Some females will not show any signs at all, you ll turn your back for fifteen minutes, and then a baby will be on the ground. Other females, will start to show signs, usually it s early in the morning when I m out there cleaning, that I ll notice a female will be off in the pasture by herself. Maybe spending more time cushed or laying with her legs, kind of, out to the side and I ll be thinking, hmm I think she s going to have a baby this morning. Some females will be spending more time at the poop pile with their tale up in the air and they may be producing a little bit of feces, a little bit of urine, but their tail is staying up in the air quite a bit longer then you would see normally. So those usually are early signs. If I see any fluid in the backend that doesn t appear to be urine then that tells me that the embryonic sack has broken, basically, the water has broken and birth should be imminent. Birth should be occurring, hopefully within thirty to forty-five minutes maximum. Page 12 of 28

13 Julie Roy: Ah-huh. Do you do anything special when you start seeing these early signs? Dr. Jeri Booher: I try not to move them because what you want to do is, you don t want to add another stress level to what they re already going through. So, I just basically let them be and I just keep on watching them. There s a reason they isolate themselves from the rest of the herd and its best not to bother them when they do that. It s just having your binoculars or sitting there on a chair is the best thing, I think. Rather then trying to move them into a catch pin, that ll upset them probably more. Dr. Jeri Booher: What can happen there, if you move them into a different environment, some of the times it ll just stop the signs of labor because they ll be so disoriented that they re in a new environment all of a sudden, that they will just quit any signs of labor. I just don t think that that is a very good thing for a breeder to do. You want to keep them in their familiar environment. You just want to sit back. Until they have their baby, then you move them. Julie Roy: Then you move them, yes. Okay. So you see the early signs, your sitting on a chair. I remember when I went to neo-natal clinic they said that you need to get a chair and a rope and we all looked at the speaker and tried to picture what we d use the rope for and he looked back at us and said, that s to tie your hands to the chair and leave the mom alone. Or tie knots, yeah. Julie Roy: hold it. Or do something, or get a camera to take two hands to Well, one thing while your sitting there and that s to get a stop watch or actually mark the time that you re noticing these changes, because it is important to see how prolonged these unusual things you re seeing take. Because if it goes on for hours and hours and hours, then you might have to take it to another level and determine whether you ve got a dystocia. So you have to mark the clock in your chair. Page 13 of 28

14 Julie Roy: {chuckles} Very good. Let s say that it s a normal birth and she s delivered in the middle of the pasture or the paddock and all the other animals are around, do you recommend something else be done now immediately? Dr. Jeri Booher: Well, we have our own protocol and this protocol may not be feasible for other breeders, but it has worked well for us. Once the baby hits the ground, then of course we get our towels and we dry them off. If it s a nice sunny day then you don t have to do a whole lot of drying off. We immediately treat the umbilical cord and we use two different things to treat the umbilical cord. We at first, use a Nolvasan dip, because that is very bactericidal, which means it will kill any bacteria that are present. Then we follow-up with a dilute iodine dip and that will help to dry the umbilical cord. So that is really critical on any cria is to treat the umbilical cord right away before it has a chance to get contaminated by anything that is on the ground. At that point, we just kind of, again, go back, sit on our chair, and let that baby get up on its own. Once it s up, I usually will go back to the mom, I ll check her mammary area, her udder area, and I ll clear out each of the four teats of the waxy plug - To make sure that I m getting a nice few drops of milk in from each teat. Then I ll go back to my chair, sit down and watch that baby nurse. We like to see the baby nursing within two hours. Usually, it s a lot sooner then that. Sometimes if you have a first time mom, then you have to be a little bit more aware that that first time mom, may not know exactly what to do, but usually they do okay. These animals have a good maternal instinct that you usually don t have to interfere a whole lot. You do want them to bond in that first several minutes. I know if its terrible weather and you want to move them out of the pasture, maybe into a catch pin, sometimes its best to let that baby bond with the mother so that she knows its here. So that when you pick it up and move it, she ll follow you. If you pick the baby up without them bonding, she ll just be standing out there and probably start grazing or something. Julie Roy: {Chuckles} Yes, I know what you mean. Dr. Jeri Booher: So once the baby has bonded and has had nursed, then what we do is we put mom and baby in their own catch pin and they re all by themselves. We keep them in there for hours usually. Then we keep a very close eye on them, see how often that baby is nursing. That s the best way that we ve found to make sure Page 14 of 28

15 that that baby, for the first 24 hours, gets an adequate amount of the colostrum, which is really vitally important to the baby s immune system. That way, by separating mom and baby by themselves, then they re not in the pin with a bunch of other moms, maybe a bunch of other babies, because a newborn baby sometimes will get a little confused and maybe not know exactly which one mom is. So this way, they are all by themselves and it s worked really well for us. Julie Roy: Yeah, I recommend that as well, because that s worked very well for us, in terms of mom and baby bonding. What about the afterbirth, the placenta, what do you recommend that breeders do about that? Dr. Jeri Booher: It s normally going to come within 24 hours, usually within the first couple of hours. But we don t ever recommend pulling it. If you envision Velcro, that s how a placenta is attached inside so that if you rip that Velcro apart fast, for instance, you ll cause some bleeding if it were applied to the placenta when you tug it out. So it should come out naturally on its own and if it s stubborn and takes a while, I still wouldn t do anything for 24 hours. This is what a veterinarian in Peru recommended a long time ago and he said, it will come. Julie Roy: Uh-huh. Just don t try to tug on it or even if it s hanging there for a couple of hours, it will come. Julie Roy: Okay. My vet always appreciates if I ve been able to capture the placenta because she likes to look at it and make sure that it s come out completely. So do you recommend that your breeders collect it and put it aside for further investigation? Well, you definitely want to collect it because out where we are you have to worry about coyotes or vultures, things like that will come down and you just don t want them in your pasture, or even domestic dogs, sometimes it will attract them. So you definitely pick it up. I think after you get a few crias under your belt, the lay person will be able to look at a placenta, after you ve seen enough of them, I would only personally, if you had a few of them under your belt, only save the ones that may look different. If it s got some spots on it. If it smells fetted, anything other then what you ve been used to seeing. I would probably save those. I think to do it routinely, just to Page 15 of 28

16 show the vet every single time, eventually you ll get bored of that or tired of that. I don t think you ll need to do it every time. Julie Roy: {chuckles} You re right, I think for my first six it was still exciting, but then after that, we determined I knew what I was looking for. Ho, hum, another placenta. {chuckles} Julie Roy: Yes, ho, hum. I think it was the idea of how clean when we were able to capture it, how clean we could keep it. Yes, many times a female, in my experience, will wait until I leave the pasture area, go up, have lunch or even just have a breakfast, come back down and there s baby on the ground, there s placenta and baby s nursing. Dr. Jeri Booher: Mmhmm. Julie Roy: Isn t it a more normal for the baby to be born that way and that the percentage of any complications where owner has to get involved, is really more the exception? Dr. Jeri Booher: It is, I figure on every year during our birthing season, that perhaps about 10% of our births come or I need to assist a little bit. So I would say the average percentage is about 10%. What we found in our area is once in a while, actually a couple of times during the summer, we ll get extreme heat spell, where our temperatures will go to the high 90 s or low 100 s. We always worry about those hot times, because it is tougher on a very pregnant mom to go through that kind of heat. It creates more blood flow to that uterus, to the baby and we are more likely to see problems birthing during those heat spells, or right after those heat spells then we do in the cooler times of the season. Julie Roy: Right, just to wrap up this portion that we re talking about, you said that within a hours, you ve allowed mom and babe to bond, you observe the baby nursing, is there anything else that you do for well-baby care at that point? Well, ours is based mostly on the experience of having gone through this so few times, if there s anything not quite right, we ll address it. But I think, if you didn t have a lot of experience and you just have your first year in the business, for instance, you might want to be in association with your vet to see if Page 16 of 28

17 you need to do an IGG test, to see if they did get enough colostrum, something along those lines. A lot of times they look like they re nursing and they are, but mom might not have produced enough colostrum. So IGG tests might be something one would consider if they re not sure what they re dealing with, and that can be done pretty simply by a vet. If you don t have a vet in the area, then it s basically knowing the pattern of the baby nursing. If it tends to get full and satisfied, great. If its nursing all the time you look at it, maybe the mom doesn t have enough milk and you start your phone calls. Julie Roy: {chuckles} Yeah. Dr. Jeri Booher: It s also a really good idea, I think, to have a very good scale, not a bathroom scale that is not very accurate. A platform scale that is specifically designed for animals, where it measures to the tenth of a pound, because that s a good way to know whether a baby is gaining the appropriate amount of weight each day. Then you can track that weight. If you re concerned about a baby, along with doing the IGG, you track a weight everyday. If you have a well baby that you feel is doing great, then you check a weight every few days, just to make sure that that baby is gaining weight. In the first hours, you also want to make sure that you see that baby urinating and you see that baby passing its merconium, its first plug of fecal material. That s very important, because constipation in a baby is not that uncommon and it can make a baby quit nursing. It goes without saying, that you need to have a pet enema, these little baby enemas on hand. Dr. Jeri Booher: Yes. Because more then likely, you might have to give it a little bit if you see it s not passing that plug in a reasonable amount of time. Julie Roy: Right, that brings up a little story I want to share for a moment for our listeners. When we were expecting our very first cria, it was an experienced mom. We were told she s a very easy birther and she had been giving me those early signs of labor all day long. Fortunately it was June 29, so it was already a warm day, but it was 7:30 at night when she just decided as she stood by the poop pile, that now was the time she was going to deliver. So here it is, our first cria being born at 8 o clock at night, nothing like the textbook. Page 17 of 28

18 {chuckles} Julie Roy: All of the well baby care that we had planned; you know we waited; the baby hit the ground and was already up at four minutes, so I was really happy to know we had a strong one. Didn t observe nursing right away, but we decided since it was already getting to be dark, that we better move her up to an area where we did have light and we could warm her up and dry her off if we needed to. The funny thing about this whole experience is my husband and I checked the waxy plugs by flashlight, to remove it. Observed the baby nursing, observed the placenta coming out, everything by flashlight because mom choose to do this so late in the day. Nothing was textbook in this case, except the baby was extremely healthy. But the funniest thing was when I m reading in the textbook how they pass the meconium, they don t give you a picture of what the meconium should look like and all you know is its just a first passing of the feces. Well that is probably the funniest thing for my husband and I to walk around this small enclosure area with a flashlight, wondering if we had missed it, somewhere in the last several hours. So listeners, if you have birthed a baby and you don t find it right away, don t worry, you don t have to spend hours and hours by flashlight trying to find it, if you didn t see it before the sun went down. {chuckles} We did find it the next day, and it was a little bit different from the rest of the feces, but I ll never forget my first experience of the well baby care when our momma Sandina, decided to deliver Jewel at 8 o clock at night. It used to be, years ago, I think Murray Fowler once told us that if a baby s born at night, then something s wrong. That you ve had a dystocia or something s wrong with that particular delivery or the baby. Now you re seeing it, you re seeing late afternoon and evening. That doesn t mean there s anything wrong. We ve seen some very vigorous babies and everything absolutely status quo, but they re just born at night. A lot of it has to do with we changed their environment from Peru and Chile. It s just a different exposure. Julie Roy: That s right. Our baby Jewel was 21 pounds, so she was definitely vigorous and had only been about ten days past the due date we had expected, so there was nothing wrong with her and we really had a great experience. That was probably the hardest one for me not to intervene or want to be too close or too involved with mom and baby bonding. But we did, we had the chair, we sat down, we bundled up ourselves and we let them go through the process and Page 18 of 28

19 finally at 2 o clock in the morning, she nursed and we could see the little milky mouth and we knew, you know, that everything was fine and we could finally go to bed. {chuckles} Dr. Jeri Booher: Mmhmm. It really muddies the water, because their gestation can vary for three to four weeks and you re sitting there saying, well they re due today and they go for another two to three weeks. It doesn t mean they are abnormal. They will just throw you curves every time. That s why you have to watch for the symptoms of labor and the things that we talked about earlier. Dr. Jeri Booher: We had a female last year, she was a maiden, this was during spring and what we found is the spring births always go a little bit longer then the later summer births. So we had a maiden who went 12 months and 16 days. Julie Roy: Oh wow! Dr. Jeri Booher: Then she decided to pop out a 25-pound baby. Julie Roy: {chuckles} Normal. {chuckles} Julie Roy: And a normal baby. I think my fourth one, she was only bred one day and so when she hadn t delivered at 12 months, then we were a little worried and concerned, but she did go 12 months and 1 week. Dr. Jeri Booher: Mmhmm. Julie Roy: A normal baby and he s doing fine, actually doing very well in the show circuit too. So we are pretty excited to have not panicked and let her go that full term. It wasn t too long ago, that if someone had one that went that far, they d rushed her in for C-Section. Julie Roy: Exactly, I d heard about that before and we just knew our animal, the females over 200 pounds, carrying a big baby, but it was her fourth baby and she didn t show any other signs of discomfort or anguish. She just was eating all the time, normal, alpaca behavior Page 19 of 28

20 and just happened to wait that long to deliver. Well, we have a few more minutes before we wrap this up and I hope that our listeners have really been enjoying getting the benefit of hearing from experienced vets, but you also have a very successful alpaca ranch where you are raising your huacayas. I would love to just hear a little bit about, how do you promote your ranch and your herdsires? Tell us a little bit about the bloodlines that you ve gone into specializing in. Dr. Jeri Booher: Well, I think one of the things that is in our favor, is that we have been in the industry for as long as we have. Julie Roy: Fourteen years now, isn t it? Dr. Jeri Booher: Fourteen, yes. Going on fifteen. Julie Roy: Going on fifteen years. I didn t mean to interrupt you but I think the listeners should really think about this. This is a business they started in the early days, its still going strong and I know there s still a future for the Booher s. Please tell us more. Dr. Jeri Booher: Given our longevity, what we ve found is we re not one of the farms that will market real aggressively, by aggressively I mean, putting huge ads in Alpacas magazine and sending out catalogs and that sort of thing. Those things work very well for other farms, but for us a lot of our sales have come from word of mouth and people who have learned over the years. They ve seen our animals at various shows. They ve seen the fleeces from our animals. They recognize our bloodlines, our herdsires, and so a lot of our promotion comes from word of mouth. That s worked very well for us. It s a little different now then when we started, because there are so many more farms. It s really important for each farm to find its own identity. To find its own niche and for us, it s been promoting our particular bloodlines, which we ve developed for several years and that bloodline is called HemiAccoyo. That bloodline is a combination of the bloodlines from Peruvian Hemingway and the Accoyo that came out of Peru. Now we ve crossed the two and have developed a huacaya that is known for its fineness, its crimp, its character and its density and that bloodline has served us very well. Julie Roy: Well, let me just reiterate for the listeners that the Hemmingway and the Accoyo is spelled HemiAccoyo. You have trademarked that name, haven t you? Page 20 of 28

21 Dr. Jeri Booher: Yes, we have. Julie Roy: This is incredible because so many people hear about the Accoyo bloodlines, or they hear about the same as Hemmingway. So what do you do then to let people know about the particular herdsires that you have? How do you actually promote your herdsires? Can we see them if we go to shows? Dr. Jeri Booher: What you see at the show are the progeny of the herdsires. In my opinion, it takes at least five years at minimum, six years to set up a progeny from the herdsire out there to really start promoting that herdsire. What we re working on now is our third and fourth generations from particular bloodlines that we started with, like Hemmingway, like the Accoyo s in the early to mid-nineties. Therefore, we re working with progeny and grand-progeny. To get a herdsire known, in my opinion is not simply putting a picture of that herdsire in a magazine. That s fine and good, but it doesn t tell you what that herdsire is putting on the ground as far as progeny. The best way to do that is participating in the shows with those progeny. The alpaca industry is pretty much a show driven industry, in many ways. Therefore, for us, it is important to get out there and do a few major shows each year, because that is the best way for the other alpaca breeders to see what you re actually producing. While we do that, one thing that s been quite effective, since we don t take our herdsires to the shows, they re just too valuable to risk stressing. We will take baskets of the fleece of our sires, year over year. Therefore, you can see 2002, 2003, 2004 and you can compare the years, to see if they re holding their fleece characteristics. Therefore, this has been quite successful without the animal even being at the show, just seeing these baskets of fleece and the quality of it. A lot of that is worth a thousand words, right there. Julie Roy: That s a wonderful suggestion, Tom. Because I know that, that s the first thing I want to look for. The consistency of the fleece and then over time, that s a bonus. It s wonderful. What about the progeny then, you do show them as juveniles and yearlings and have them get the ribbons? Then that of course raises the value of your herdsire, doesn t it? Dr. Jeri Booher: It does and it does take years with Peruvian Hemmingway, who came in the 1993 importation. It s been kind of a slow progression over the years of getting his progeny out there. He s Page 21 of 28

22 had excellent progeny. I think with Hemmingway, we re working on fifth and sixth generation of his offspring now. Everybody who s in the alpaca industry pretty much in North America and in Australia, they all know who Hemmingway is and it s taken many, many years. He stamped his mark on our alpaca industry by the excellence of his progeny. Julie Roy: Wonderful. So is there going to be any final advice you re going to want to give? One thing that I learned from going to conferences around the country and that is, and I think a lot of the veterinarians and vet schools are starting to take this approach, less is more. I think the less that you do to these animals, in context. Newer people want to do too much to these animals, put six or seven pharmaceuticals things into them. I think just hands off approach, for the most part is better for them then too much. Julie Roy: Great advice. Jeri, is there any final comment you d like to make? Dr. Jeri Booher: Well, kind of along those lines, I think that sometimes these animals tend to be micro managed a little bit too much, as far as, their diet to the point of forgetting where they ve come from. These alpacas are very efficient utilizers of their feed. It s important to take into account your regional differences, as far as, your hay. But, a good quality grass hay, like orchard grass, and some supplementation depending on whether you have any regional deficiencies in your soil, regional deficiencies in your hay, its important to know. But I kind of have to chuckle about hearing how some of them are micro managed to the point of kind of forgetting that in Peru they re not supplemented by hay, they re free ranging and they do quite well. So, we have to remember that although this is America, it s the land of abundance and over abundance and we have a tendency to create obese people, we have to remember that we don t want to create obese alpacas. Julie Roy: {chuckles} That s very good advice. Okay and so in conclusion, would you please share with us your contact information and if somebody wishes to get in touch with you personally, what would be the best way to do that? Page 22 of 28

23 Dr. Jeri Booher: People can always notify us by , we get a lot of questions, veterinary and alpaca wise and that address is AlpacaDR@AOL.com. reference. This is all in the AOBA directory too, for ready Julie Roy: The ranch is, Timberland Alpacas, west of Portland by about 30 miles, so you know that they are in the Pacific Northwest and contact information can be found in the AOBA directory, but to reach them immediately would be AlpacaDR@AOL.com. That s all one word, AlpacaDR. Julie Roy: Right, AlpacaDR@AOL.com. Well Jeri and Tom, it s been delightful to talk to you and really to have you share your wealth of information with us. How fortunate that the listeners were able to get first hand information from experts like yourself. You ve been so generous, not only with your time for us today, but also for the time ahead because as you told me in another interview, you know there s a future for this industry and we really are just beginning. Years ago there was an infomercial that was made and Jeri had a little part in that, I remember her saying something about her passion for this industry was just kind of controlling her life and she couldn t ever foresee her not having this passion, it s such a wonderful business. That was probably twelve years ago and I don t see that s she s changed. Julie Roy: {chuckles} That s wonderful, so we can summarize from that, that you feel this is an industry that s got a long future ahead of it as well. Absolutely. Dr. Jeri Booher: What it is, it s an addictive industry, you have an alpaca and then you re addicted and you want to get more. It grows on you. Julie Roy: Yes, it is an addictive industry. It certainly has gotten hold of me and I can see with you having 100 and more crias coming this year that you re going to be around a while longer too. Absolutely. Page 23 of 28

24 Dr. Jeri Booher: The addictive part about each year is you want to see the improvements you ve made genetically in each cria crop, so it s addictive because there s always that next cria crop coming. It s like waiting for Christmas. Julie Roy: {chuckles} Yes, so true. Well thank you again so much for your time, your professionalism, your wisdom and your great stories. I know that it was a treat for our listeners as well. Thank you Julie. Julie Roy: Bye, bye now. Page 24 of 28

25 Contact these resources to assist you with your alpaca business. Alpaca Fiber Co-operative of North America P.O. Box 349 Decatur, TN Phone: (877) Website: AlpacaNation.com P.O. Box 2359 Suwanee, Georgia Phone: (800) Fax: (678) Website: Alpaca Owners & Breeders Association, Inc Linbar Drive, Suite 297 Nashville, TN Phone: (615) Fax: (615) Website: Alpaca Registry 4665 Innovation Drive, Suite 160 Lincoln, NE Phone: (402) Fax: (402) Website: The Suri Network 1140 Manford Avenue, Suite A Estes Park, CO Phone: (970) Fax: (970) Website: office@surinetwork.org Page 25 of 28

26 DISCLAIMER AND TERMS OF USE AGREEMENT (collectively referred to as we or us ) are collectively defined as author and publisher below. The author and publisher of this Alpaca Industry Information Package Consisting of Audios, and Transcripts and the accompanying materials have used their best efforts in preparing this Alpaca Industry Information Package Consisting of Audios, and Transcripts. The author and publisher make no representation or warranties with respect to the accuracy, applicability, fitness, or completeness of the contents of this Alpaca Industry Information Package Consisting of Audios, and Transcripts. The information contained in this Alpaca Industry Information Package Consisting of Audios, and Transcripts is strictly for educational purposes. Therefore, if you wish to apply ideas contained in this Alpaca Industry Information Package Consisting of Audios, and Transcripts, you are taking full responsibility for your actions. EVERY EFFORT HAS BEEN MADE TO ACCURATELY REPRESENT THIS PRODUCT AND IT'S POTENTIAL. EVEN THOUGH THIS INDUSTRY IS ONE OF THE FEW WHERE ONE CAN WRITE THEIR OWN CHECK IN TERMS OF EARNINGS, THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL EARN ANY MONEY USING THE TECHNIQUES AND IDEAS IN THESE MATERIALS. EXAMPLES IN THESE MATERIALS ARE NOT TO BE INTERPRETED AS A PROMISE OR GUARANTEE OF EARNINGS. EARNING POTENTIAL IS ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON THE PERSON USING OUR PRODUCT, IDEAS AND TECHNIQUES. WE DO NOT PURPORT THIS AS A GET RICH SCHEME. ANY CLAIMS MADE OF ACTUAL EARNINGS OR EXAMPLES OF ACTUAL RESULTS CAN BE VERIFIED UPON REQUEST. YOUR LEVEL OF SUCCESS IN ATTAINING THE RESULTS CLAIMED IN OUR MATERIALS DEPENDS ON THE TIME YOU DEVOTE TO THE PROGRAM, IDEAS AND TECHNIQUES MENTIONED, YOUR FINANCES, KNOWLEDGE AND VARIOUS SKILLS. SINCE THESE FACTORS DIFFER ACCORDING TO INDIVIDUALS, WE CANNOT GUARANTEE YOUR SUCCESS OR INCOME LEVEL. NOR ARE WE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY OF YOUR ACTIONS. MATERIALS IN OUR PRODUCT AND OUR WEBSITE MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT INCLUDES OR IS BASED UPON FORWARD-LOOKING STATEMENTS WITHIN THE MEANING OF THE SECURITIES LITIGATION REFORM ACT OF FORWARD- LOOKING STATEMENTS GIVE OUR EXPECTATIONS OR FORECASTS OF FUTURE EVENTS. YOU CAN IDENTIFY THESE STATEMENTS BY THE FACT THAT THEY DO NOT RELATE STRICTLY TO HISTORICAL OR CURRENT FACTS. THEY USE WORDS SUCH AS ANTICIPATE, ESTIMATE, EXPECT, PROJECT, INTEND, PLAN, BELIEVE, AND OTHER WORDS AND TERMS OF SIMILAR MEANING IN CONNECTION WITH A DESCRIPTION OF POTENTIAL EARNINGS OR FINANCIAL PERFORMANCE. ANY AND ALL FORWARD LOOKING STATEMENTS HERE OR ON ANY OF OUR SALES MATERIAL ARE INTENDED TO EXPRESS OUR OPINION OF EARNINGS POTENTIAL. MANY FACTORS WILL BE IMPORTANT IN DETERMINING YOUR ACTUAL RESULTS AND NO GUARANTEES ARE MADE THAT YOU WILL ACHIEVE RESULTS SIMILAR TO OURS OR ANYBODY ELSE S, IN FACT NO GUARANTEES ARE MADE THAT YOU WILL ACHIEVE ANY RESULTS FROM OUR IDEAS AND TECHNIQUES IN OUR MATERIAL. The author and publisher disclaim any warranties (express or implied), merchantability, or fitness for any particular purpose. The author and publisher shall in no event be held liable to any party for any direct, indirect, punitive, special, Page 26 of 28

27 incidental or other consequential damages arising directly or indirectly from any use of this material, which is provided as is, and without warranties. As always, the advice of a competent legal, tax, accounting or other professional should be sought. The author and publisher do not warrant the performance, effectiveness or applicability of any sites listed or linked to in this Alpaca Industry Information Package Consisting of Audios, and Transcripts. All links are for information purposes only and are not warranted for content, accuracy or any other implied or explicit purpose. This Alpaca Industry Information Package Consisting of Audios, and Transcripts is copyrighted by. (Copyright 2008, All rights reserved.) No part of this may be copied, or changed in any format, sold, or used in any way other than what is outlined within this Alpaca Industry Information Package Consisting of Audios, and Transcripts under any circumstances. Page 27 of 28

28 About our Facilitator Julie Roy is an Entrepreneur and Executive Business Coach, author and professional speaker. She received her professional business coaching certification in Then in the fall of 2004, after purchasing a house on 10 acres in Southern California, she and her husband of 26 years started their herd of huacaya alpacas. In their first year, they grew from 4 to 15 and at the end of their second year they expanded the operation to include the agisting of 10 suris. Now at the four year mark over 50 alpacas call Alpacas of Anza Valley home. Moreover, their business plan calls for a growth of 10 to 12 more each year. Julie s personal mission is to inspire and educate people in their chosen business venture to create their desired lifestyle. With her expertise in facilitating, Julie identified and interviewed every expert in the series to keep the listener current in the alpaca industry. Julie Roy PO Box Anza, CA Alpacas of Anza Valley Creating Financial Enjoyment Page 28 of 28